New Gears for Beginners (Offshore)

Damien91
edited June 14 in Products.Services.Shops
Hi there,

Recently went down to a few tackle shops, asking for advice from the sales men, but i came back more confused then before.

I was trying to purchase a set up(rod & reel), hopefully within a budget of $300-$400.
Target Fish: Trevally, Tenggiri, Tunas, Amberjacks.....hopefully a small sailfish.


The first shop I went to suggested a Shimano 4000(not sure which model) - $300
The second.........a Fishwalk 5000 or something  - $250/$300
The third..........a Daiwa for only $150 and a rod at about $100.


The prices, brands and quality seem to be very different.
As i am very new, I have no idea if the stores were trying to push a certain brand, or if any of them were genuine.

Would love to hear more valuable inputs from you guys.
Thanks.

Best Regards,
Damien


PS: Any comments on the Daiwa Freams 4000? And maybe a rod to match?
«1
  • monstrad

    a fast jigging / bottom rod will suit your needs. about pe 4, don't go too cheap, minimum to go for fuji stainless steel guide

    cheaper rods use brandless guide which rust easily in saltwater environment

    and u need a shimano size 6000 reel or daiwa size 4000 saltwater reel to have the line capacity,

    pe3- 300m.

    impt to get a Saltwater reel. I don't think freams is a saltwater reel


    so I for your budget I recommend the lowest end shimano sw setup,

    shimano spheros SW 6000 with 300m of pe 3 + shimano speedmaster bottom ship pe 2-4 rod ,S584, jig weight max 180

    this combo should cost 400 without line, u can go TTC shimano which have this combo in store

  • Freakinfart
    edited June 15
    $400? No problem!

    1. 2016 Daiwa BG 4000 est $140 (currently best bang for buck.. even alan hawk rated it to be top SW reel) get from 2000 Tackle / Sincere Tackle / OJ Tackle
    2. Shimano Speedmaster Bottom Ship PE 4 $120 get from 2000 Tackle
    3. Duel Hardcore Super X-Wire 8 PE2.5 200m $39 get from 2000 Tackle

    Daiwa BG review:
    http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16.html

    Duel Hardcore Super X-Wire Preview:


    Shimano Speedmaster Bottom Ship:
    http://fish.shimano.com.sg/content/SPL/en/home/products/fishing-rods/jigging/15spmbs.html

    $400 easily done! Still have some spare $99 for leader, jigs, sinkers or maybe buy mid range rod.
  • SportAngler
    edited June 16
    I don't own any Daiwa as I like Shimano but I am now looking at the New Daiwa BG SW. This is by far the best reel at this price point. A 3000 is lighter vs 4000 with more line cap and heavier. This depending on your preference.
    You can also look into Zagan Metal Mayhem rod (About $130). I have a PE4 which feel more like a PE1-3 but have the power of a PE4 when fighting fishes.
    This set you about $300 for Rod & Reel.
  • extractor
    Yeah, The Daiwa BG and Bottomship rod is a very good choice as recommended by freakinfart. I tink the 4000 reel can swallow 300m of pe 2.5 just nice. 300m will give some insurance in case you hoot a bigger than expected size fish. 

    For salt, i will take the BG over the Freams anyday
  • dailyjambo
    I started fishing about 8 months ago local offshore, If you are fishing locally.

    My first setup,
    reel Sienna 4000 FE (2016) dirt cheap reel ($60-80)
    rod ATC astrograph PE 2-4
    line duel 45lbs multi-colour
    200g Madai RED

    Landed a 2-3kg Ang Gao (first fish in my fishing career)
    and a few normal gao
    But eventually i changed because everytime boatman shout lines up! i take longer time to reel up and its tiring.

    I've tried many reels and i personally think Ultegra(buy 2013 ones), Stradic is good for that budget. NASCI (i never try before) but some say good some say lousy,

    http://fish.shimano.com/content/sac-fish/en/home/products/fishing-reels/spinning.html
    This is the link to shimano spinning reels, the tops are the most expensive ones and slowly go down the page. 
    Shimano reels i realised some are very easily Corroded. You have to really wash and clean properly after every trip despite how tired you are.

    Daiwa i only like Certate Hyper Custom or Saltiga (expensive toy)...

    For rod wise, any PE 2-4 is fine for the start. Fuji guide is good but it will rust also.. so always rmb to wash before u get off the boat. 

    After awhile you will realise 2-4 is bullying the fish and you will change PE 1-3. 
    I love my ATC astrograph rod (PE 2-4) and i realised many uncle using haha! it may not be a popular brand but so far its one of the best i have used. (Don't talk about the expensive/ high end rods)

    Line i recommend 30LBS, anything above that are too thick, when u catch fish it's bullying. When your bait stuck below coral, You headache!!! and heart pain.

    Leader: 50-60lbs, remember to tie a longer leader, Singapore lots of rocks and coral, will cut your braided line easily. 

    Just my 2cents worth experiencem, hope you manage to get what u want! haha will love to know what setup you got in the end too!!!




    Ultegra / Zerek Tamer / Power Pro /50lb YGK leader.
  • Freakinfart
    extractor said:
    Yeah, The Daiwa BG and Bottomship rod is a very good choice as recommended by freakinfart. I tink the 4000 reel can swallow 300m of pe 2.5 just nice. 300m will give some insurance in case you hoot a bigger than expected size fish. 

    For salt, i will take the BG over the Freams anyday
    ​yea currently best bang for buck.. back then used to be Eupro Twincraft + ATC Valiant SW4000.

    My dad Daiwa BG 4000 spool 30lb normal powerpro 300yards also cant full spool it.. i had to spool mono backing till the 2nd ring circle before before able to decently fill it up with powerpro lol..
  • Damien91
    Thanks everyone for such comprehensive explanations, loving the enthusiasm from the forum.
    @monstrad ;@Freakinfart @SportAngler @extractor @dailyjambo ;

    Will most likely be calling a few fishing tackle store tmr to check on the prices for the Daiwa BG 4500/5000.
    Fishing Buddy quotes $207 for the BG 4500, but i'll keep looking.
    Btw, is the Saltist Model anywhere close to the BG series?

    As for the rods, i'll have a little look around a little more.

    Will upload the set up once my friends and I get a hold of them.
    Thanks again everyone.
    Cheers.
  • SportAngler
    4500/5000 is too big = to Shimano 10/12K reel. More for PE 6 up. You should be looking no more than 4k if you want a PE4 setup.
    Joe tackle display price is $167. May get some discount.
  • Freakinfart
    Damien91 said:
    Thanks everyone for such comprehensive explanations, loving the enthusiasm from the forum.
    @monstrad ;@Freakinfart @SportAngler @extractor @dailyjambo ;

    Will most likely be calling a few fishing tackle store tmr to check on the prices for the Daiwa BG 4500/5000.
    Fishing Buddy quotes $207 for the BG 4500, but i'll keep looking.
    Btw, is the Saltist Model anywhere close to the BG series?

    As for the rods, i'll have a little look around a little more.

    Will upload the set up once my friends and I get a hold of them.
    Thanks again everyone.
    Cheers.
    ​Sincere Tackle Daiwa BG 4000 = $128 after discount.

    Dad bought it last week.
  • Damien91
    @SportAngler Yeah! Someone told me the same thing today! I guess i'll look for something below 4000 then.

    @Freakinfart Thanks for the info!!! And its so near my place! Hope your dad enjoys the new gear.
  • extractor
    edited July 1
    Just stick with the 4000, dont let anyone persuade you to downsize 3500 or upsize to 4500, Lol!

    3500 has a smaller body with less cranking power

    4500 has same body with faster retrieve but less drag power than the 4000, dont believe whatever is written on the box...

    The 4000 is a better reel unless you really need the faster retrieve at the expenses of lesser drag...


  • Devilzken
    edited July 2
    What do u mean by lesser drag? Imo it's internal gearing system diff the rest should b the same, anyone can enlighten? 4000 vs 4000sh?
  • SportAngler
    Take a look at the weight. 3500-4000 same body. The different is in the spool. More or less line it hold. Not sure of the SH.

  • monstrad
    Devilzken said:
    What do u mean by lesser drag? Imo it's internal gearing system diff the rest should b the same, anyone can enlighten? 4000 vs 4000sh?


    h = high gear ratio

    sh= super high gear ratio

    for example legalis h is 5.7.1, legalis sh is 6.0.1

    some like luvias is 4.8.1, luvias h is 5.7.1


  • Devilzken
    I know Abt the speed, but @extractor say lesser drag which I dun understand
  • SportAngler
    monstrad said:
    Devilzken said:
    What do u mean by lesser drag? Imo it's internal gearing system diff the rest should b the same, anyone can enlighten? 4000 vs 4000sh?


    h = high gear ratio

    sh= super high gear ratio

    for example legalis h is 5.7.1, legalis sh is 6.0.1

    some like luvias is 4.8.1, luvias h is 5.7.1


    ​Thanks for the info. Just like Shimano PG,HG,XG.
  • extractor
    edited July 3
    Devilzken said:
    I know Abt the speed, but @extractor say lesser drag which I dun understand
    ​ohh.... sorry, it should be 3500 and 4000 sharing the same exact body, 4500 and 5000 sharing the similar but bigger body.

    In that case, the 3500 will have more drag than the 4000 then

    if you notice, 3500 has a slower retrieve and the 4000 is faster right? Size of the drag disc is exactly the same on both of them. Put them both side by side and remove the drag knob off the top, you can see its the same size.

    Because the 3500 has a (narrower spool width) hence it has a higher drag but slower retrieve rate.

    The 4000 has a (wider spool width) hence it has lesser drag but faster retrieve.

    In simple physics, imagine if you are driving a bus now which has a super big steering wheel, it is easy to turn right? If you wrap line around it, it is similar to lesser drag.

    But what if you were to install a tiny Honda Civic steering wheel to it??? It will be very very hard to turn the steering wheel on the bus already. This is similar to the 3500 with a smaller width spool which equates to higher drag.  

    A car 1st gear has alot of torque but no speed, 5th gear has low torque but high speed...  



     




  • Devilzken
    Interesting view on there.
    But if both steering having 5kg of drag in order to make it turn, shouldn't tat equates to same?
  • extractor
    edited July 4
    Not true, reel manufacturers measure drag on an empty spool in the factory, since the arbor of the spool for 3500 and 4000 is of the same diameter, hence they claim the drag is the same.

    But in real life usage, its not the case

    Example, when you are fighting a big fish and the guy is taking out line furiously.... AS THE LINE GETS LESSER AND LESSER, YOUR DRAG IS INCREASING HIGHER AND HIGHER.

    As you lose line, the diameter is getting smaller and smaller... which results in higher and higher drag. but because you have a smaller diameter now, every time your rotor goes around the spool, it is actually collecting less line than when it was full spool when the diameter was larger. 



     
  • Devilzken
    Lol , I do understand the lesser line and higher drag concept
  • extractor
    edited July 4
    Devilzken said:
    Lol , I do understand the lesser line and higher drag concept
    ​Yup, then you got it already.

    Lesser line has smaller diameter than a full spool right? Smaller diameter = to higher drag right?

    So which reel has a smaller outer diameter spool? 3500 or 4000?

    Its obvious which reel has higher drag in real life usage. 

    Understanding the physics of it will totally change the way you look at reels the next time you step into a tackle shop. Lol!

    Nowadays everyone favours narrow spool reels, Because they are narrow, it's spool has to be very deep to accommodate enough line. The deeper the spool, the wider the drag range.

    Because nobody wants them anymore so can get super lelong deals on them, wide spool reels have their own place too for certain applications. The spool is usually shallower hence the drag range is smaller and far more consistent. I happily snap up a few for my own use.... haha!





  • Devilzken
    I dun usually go for shallow spool, it really limits the fishing method. If I wan shallow I jus back it up with mono and spool the required braid
  • monstrad

    tall spool will let u cast further, example stella FI

    shallow spool is for finesse . u get less drag but much smoother drag

    example stella 2500s max drag 4kg vs 2500 9kg max

  • Devilzken
    I prefer big fishes  B)
  • monstrad
    Devilzken said:
    I prefer big fishes  B)


    shallow spool only for size 2500 and below

    big fish u need to use at least daiwa 4000, shimano 6000

  • Devilzken
    Ok la c3k can use for offshore can kena 7-8 kg fishes also lol
  • Freakinfart
    aiya catch fish can alr la..

    so complicating meh.. aiyoo..

    tight lines everyone.
  • Damien91
    aiya catch fish can alr la..

    so complicating meh.. aiyoo..

    tight lines everyone.
    ​Hahah, wouldnt that be nice.
  • Damien91
    edited August 3
    @monstrad ;;;;@Freakinfart @SportAngler @extractor @dailyjambo ;;;

    Hi Guys, sorry to bother you guys again, just about to put down the order this weekend.
    However, looking back at the informations you guys have adviced on...i have a few concerns.

    1) Rod: Why the Bottom Rod, instead of the Speedmaster Jig? If i pick the Jigging Rod, will it be able to land a Marlin?
    Shops offer me: Speedmaster Jig PE 2-4 or a Speedmaster Bottom PE 4. Are the 2 the same as what @Freakinfart mentioned, speedmaster bottomship?

    2) Reel: BG 4000 vs 4500
    As adviced, a 4000 is enough and the drag on it is better than the 4500 ( Thou I don't understand the explanation XD ), my concern would be the line capacity.  It seems BG 4000, 30lbs line can only hold 280yards. I am afraid it might not be enough if a marlin strikes.

    I am actually considering a heavier line, just so we can be a little more aggressive, so we can land the fish faster, since i heard we don't wanna tire the fish out and cause it to die from exhaustion. ( Is this even a right rationale at all?)

    3) Lures:
    Typically, shops would suggest i buy 20pcs of jigs. However. my boatmen suggested a few jigs and pin tail would suffice. I guess i should trust the boatmen?

    Any words of wisdom from you guys would be much appreciated. Haha.

    Tight Lines Everyone,
    Damien
  • Devilzken
    Damien91 said:
    @monstrad ;;;;@Freakinfart @SportAngler @extractor @dailyjambo ;;;

    Hi Guys, sorry to bother you guys again, just about to put down the order this weekend.
    However, looking back at the informations you guys have adviced on...i have a few concerns.

    1) Rod: Why the Bottom Rod, instead of the Speedmaster Jig? If i pick the Jigging Rod, will it be able to land a Marlin?
    Shops offer me: Speedmaster Jig PE 2-4 or a Speedmaster Bottom PE 4. Are the 2 the same as what @Freakinfart mentioned, speedmaster bottomship?

    2) Reel: BG 4000 vs 4500
    As adviced, a 4000 is enough and the drag on it is better than the 4500 ( Thou I don't understand the explanation XD ), my concern would be the line capacity.  It seems BG 4000, 30lbs line can only hold 280yards. I am afraid it might not be enough if a marlin strikes.

    I am actually considering a heavier line, just so we can be a little more aggressive, so we can land the fish faster, since i heard we don't wanna tire the fish out and cause it to die from exhaustion. ( Is this even a right rationale at all?)

    3) Lures:
    Typically, shops would suggest i buy 20pcs of jigs. However. my boatmen suggested a few jigs and pin tail would suffice. I guess i should trust the boatmen?

    Any words of wisdom from you guys would be much appreciated. Haha.

    Tight Lines Everyone,
    Damien
    ​1. Jigging rod can offer both bottom and jig for dual use, no problem for landing Marlin on pe4. Those rod having 2-4 pe meaning their range of jig is quite flexible from 199gm to 250gm for example. A bottom rod rated pe 4 will b bit stiffer and it will have shorter butt and longer foregrip which is harder to jig.

    2. Actually there are many brands of braid now is quite thin, a 4k daiwa should b able to hold 30 lbs 300m with ease. Having a pe line vs normal braid makes a big difference also as pe lines tends to b thinner and with color marking you will know roughly how deep when you fish. If the Sounders reads 50m depth and you are releasing 10 colors (per color 10m) yet stopping meaning the weight is too light for the current. Personal view is to get a larger spool same body vs same spool. U get to load more lines or heavier lines depending where you fish.

    3. Jigs wise do not recommend to get 20 at one go. U may want to try out some inexpensive ones like white rabbit which is proven to be cheap and good. Know what you goin to fish and what the jig action will make a different btw striking and zero. Pintail are for casting and required a reasonable length rods. This is another class although most jigging rods can do the job but a bottom rod will lose out in terms of distance. If you are trolling the pintail then both is ok.

    I suggest asking ppl who have been to tat place and researching YouTube is a great place to start. Often beginner makes a big mistakes of hearing the wrong info end up spending more $. No matter what , more trip and experience will help u to understand more Abt fishing  :D

    Jus my 2 cents
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