Daiwa SS 700 Modification and super tune

Nimo
edited December 2011 in Reels
Daiwa SS 700 Modification and super tune

Daiwa SS700 has attended cult status in fishing history worldwide. After comparing with several US $50-500 Shimano, Daiwa, and American reels of the same size, the Daiwa SS700 priced at ~US$90 is still a winner.

This reel has the ever green advantages which no one seek to surpass:
1. Long cast , smooth operation
2. Good looks, durable and can land any fish as good as any other reel
3. The Thailand made US model is superior than the Made in Japan model

This reel is very popular in Asia as a multipurpose reel. It is also a preferred reel for luring as it is light, tough and handles fish well.

However, it has its limitations and weaknesses. This article attempts to record the modifications that makes this reel more suitable for salt water fishing, smoother and yet stronger drag, and to address the errors in schematic.

Daiwa originally intended to sell this reel for carp fishing. This is a fresh water reel and will corrode beyond repair if used in salt water fishing.


Initial Assessments

The size is smaller than the SS1300 (8.5oz 165yrds/8lbs), and the weight is only at 7oz (110yrds/6lbs). Compared to my Shimano Stella 1000, this is only 0.4oz heavier. With lines loaded, the SS700 is still lighter and more field rugged than the Stella 1000. Line capacity is not an issue with the modern braided super lines.



I never will use a new reel without checking and re-lubrication.
http://www.fishingkaki.com/forum/viewto ... ight=daiwa

Although some claim this reel is difficult to modify, it is actually one of the easiest reel to upgrade and tune for most novice.



The line worm gear supported by a bush. If you hit a big fish, you will run into trouble. The line worm shaft will bent from the frame and cause jamming, and hence line break at times.



This is a brand new reel. However, the grease is already black and some assembly parts were wrong. There were too many shims on the main shaft. Thailand QC still sucks.



See how bad the lubrication has become. This reel has not touched water yet.



The lock catch shows how the one way bearing works in old school reels.
From experience, this is the BEST setup. Modern one way instant anti reverse very often CANNOT set hook properly resulting in lost fish. The one way bearing in the Daiwa KIX series setup is much weaker than this. Daiwa incorporates Dual bearing and cog anti reverse to please the customer and to set hook properly at high end surf reels.

Anyone who ask Daiwa to change this design to bearing type anti reverse does not understand how the anti reverse works. Daiwa will ignore you and ask you to buy this reel. From Trout to fierce Pike, this is the setup that works. But I will tell how you to make it work better.
Note: in original form, there is no oil or lubrication on the parts. This will result in failures.



** The copper shim is not shown in the schematic. Take note. You can use back at the same location as I did.

The failing lubrication must be removed.



The reel completely dismantled and accessed. You can see additional parts of Carbontex drag and new bearings. Carbon drag can be purchased from Smoooth drag but their service is very bad. You can buy Abu Garcia carbon drag and trim it for use, at only US$7.



Items to prepare

Daiwa ships the best reels to USA. Its true. The gears are better and so are the bearings. I would not spend money on the so called Made in Japan SS700. They are worse.

(Beware of 2nd hand reels. Especially those sellers that do not given money back, meet up for the deal and ask the girlfriend to pass to you. I heard too many stories.) I have seen many spent hundreds for the so called “made in Japan” reel and bought a reel that needs new parts instead. You have been warned.

Tools to prepare:



Parts/Items to prepare:

Hybrid ceramic bearing OD13 ID6 thickness 5
Hybrid ceramic bearing OD 14 ID7 thickness 3.5, you need 2
Steel bearing OD6, ID3 thickness 2.5 all units in mm.


(These bearings are readily available from many dealers worldwide. Don’t pester me to buy bearings for you and ship for you. I already gave you free information and free instructions. If you keep pestering me, I won’t bother answering you.)

Sand paper, grade 2000-3000, to be polished with running water.

PTFE grade grease. I always look for better products. Use what you like.
But I would use lighter lub for bearings and heavier lub for gears.

Acetone/Lighter fluid to clean parts


Look, Daiwa uses a stronger bearing support for the SS700 than SS1300. Why? I suppose there is more space to incorporate a bigger bearing. The right side uses a bigger sealed bearing than the SS1300. I would use the SS700 for big groupers if line capacitor is not an issue.



The shaft has no bearing supports. However, it is short, and strong , made of steel. The part can take a 30lbs fish easily.



Whether it was made in Japan or Thailand, the parts needs further surface finishing. Use a tooth paste to polish the shaft and brass gear. Do not use sand paper or abrasive materials! Its surface finishing, not
Material Removal!



Clean off all the low grade grease in the bearings. Use Acetone.


ASSEMBLY

Before assembly, check all parts and schematic for fits. Re oil the bearings with PTFE lubricants for smoother and more durable operation.

Even hybrid ceramic bearings benefit from PTFE.



Gear/parts shown after cleaning with Acetone. I would not recycle the bearing if it is rough. It is a expendable part and I would change it regularly. That is why I recommend ceramic type which has longer service life.



Re oil the parts using PTFE.


How to assemble the line laying worm gears.


**** These are the two shims that are usually lost during servicing.

Most people sell their reels off as 2nd because the shims are lost, because the shims are difficult to replace/purchase. Daiwa support is, unfortunately, much worse than Shimano. I believe Daiwa wants you to buy new reels than new parts.



Assembly in place.


Using the new support bearing. Note that the small shim must be in place. The fork that is between the bearing and shaft should have the smoother surface facing the shaft and not the bearing. The shim should sit between the shaft and the fork. **** Otherwise, during a fierce fight you may have a broken line. I have seen it many times.



How to improve the anti reverse?


Simple, use oil or PTFE. The original reel critical parts do have no oil at all. They will fail. Never mind the poor sluggish response.



Some oil here will make the anti reverse work wonders.


Grease it up if you want to use the reel for sea trips.


Note the sequence before assembly.


Do not over tighten and use a GOOD screw driver please.


Touch up lubrication if required.


Daiwa usee glue to lock the brass gear and the nut. Just make sure you use PROPER tool and lock it tight. The glue is not necessary. You can use nail polish instead sparingly.



Check free play and operation.


The reel body is assembled. Check for rough feel. It is easy to balance the rotor. Just add a very small weight to counter the line guide. You have to experiment yourself.



Does the drag plates looks shiny to you? Yes, they are polished. The original finishing is rough and uneven. Dreadful!



**** Experiments showed that:

1. After polishing the drag plates, the initial start up force is reduced by 50% using original drag pads. Regardless of drag setting (1lbs, 3lbs and 5lbs)

2. The drag variation is reduced (dF/dt reduced because area is more flat)

3. The maximum drag is increased by 20%.

The drag places had uneven surfaces.
F = u A
where F=force, u is friction coefficient, and A is area.

If the Area is uneven, the force can vary from very large to none, from variation in contacts.

Also, u is non linear. After heating up, u drops significantly.

** Polishing the area of the plates allows a more constant A, less change in u. By removing the uneven surfaces, Area is bigger and results in a bigger stopping force!

The maximum locked force was measured at 39 lbs after modification. You are not advised to use this reel for big fish > 20lbs.

More water proof.



The line guides needs to be greased. The original setting is no oil at all. It will fail. Just apply light grease to the main shaft, plastic sleeve and the inside of the roller. If this part corrodes, you will need a new reel.



Mating the spool to the tuned body,


The reel is done!


Conclusions

Comparing with Shimano Stella, Sedona and even Stradic, this reel has better price to performance ratios, both subjective and by measurements.

Daiwa failed to obsolete this reel with the Tierra, Cabelas variants, or even the Fuego or Steez series. That is why they are still selling with silent upgrade. Please don’t fall for marketing gimmicks.

This reel does not need 3rd party parts change for upgrades, apart from Carbontex drag pads. Even the original drag pads work well.

This reel is well suited for rough usage. And it catches fishes. Perfect for Squid hunting or bait fish jigging. Enjoy ;)

Check my Daiwa SS1300 mods in this forum.
  • Nimo
    Sorry, the equation for the friction is wrong. Correction:

    Static situation

    F to move the spool = U static X F applied to both surfaces

    Dynamic situation

    F to move the spool = U dynamic X F applied to both surfaces

    where U static is usually = 0.042, U dynamic = 0.039 (measured)

    By changing A, the area, it is just making the area more flat and hence the U in above equation are kept constant. Otherwise U will be changing all the time and hence the jerk. Note that certain grease will be sticky and degrade and hence change the Us and Ud.

    Setting the drag should result in a constant force. So, if you check your drag using a sprint balance it should be constant when you pull the line out. If it is jerky, you know what to do.


    ;)
  • andylau
    Bo Nimo, great job done by u man...
  • Nimo
    Thanks Bro, I know many own this reel. Hope this helps.
  • crazyforfish
    Nimo" said:
    Thanks Bro, I know many own this reel. Hope this helps.
    bro Nimo, sorry to disturb u.. i juz cant find the parts number for the bearing for the both side of the reel. coz i brought tis second hand from a bro here but without box and the paper..hope u can help me on tis and thanks alot..
  • Nimo
    Bro

    You can go here to download from Mike's reel repair

    http://www.mikesreelrepair.com/schemati ... 24&pos=788

    I don't have a scanner at hand now.

    The bearings are 64 and 67, they are different

    64- B18-1601

    67 -635 5701 this one is the same as SS1300.

    Why not you buy from SLS for better replacement?



  • crazyforfish
    Thanks bro nimo..i will go try to source...thanks alot
  • BigReef
    Bro nimo, if i wan to get the bearings from sls bearings for the daiwa ss700, which modle of bearing should i get?
  • Nimo
    Hello

    Goto Jalan Besar SLS Bearings : +65-62925566

    All dimensions in millimeters:

    Stainless Steel bearing OD13 ID6 thickness 5, you need 1

    Stainless Steel bearing OD 14 ID7 thickness 3.5, you need 2

    Stainless Steel bearing OD6, ID3 thickness 2.5 , you need 1


    The stainless steel bearing may wear off after 1 year if you fish regularly. So far, the bearings from SLS are pretty good, and cheap.

    Call the shop in advance and ask for Stainless steel type. If the guy rely in Chinese, tell him "Bai Gang" which means stainless steel.
  • bennyow
    Dear Sir.... Do you help mi to service cum tuning of the SS700 reel??? Cos i tried to service one reel before and it spoil.... Kinda have fear in doing those stuff again... Dun wish to waste another reel.... If u does do the servicing and modification.. How much do you charge for ur service??? Care to reach mi @ 98337511... Thanks & Regards.. Benny OW
  • Nimo
    Benny, there are some guys trying to meet up sometime. I shall let you know.
  • bennyow
    Thank you sir!!!! Tats kind of you.....
  • chris@sg
    benny: where exactly did it spoil?
  • bennyow
    Dear Chris..... Its been a year, and its started to get jam at times.... But else wise its ok....
  • bennyow
    Dear Sir, do you provide servicing cum upgrade???? And how much u charge???
  • Nimo
    I am a hobbyist. :)

    If you want an excellent service, please call Eric of Tackle 2000. :)
    If he is not around, Lao Dar will take care of it.
  • Nimo
    Re post as requested.
  • longislandtea
    Nimo" said:
    Re post as requested.
    Brother Nimo I applaud you for your effort in taking your time to share this with fellow fishing kakis.

    This will definitely help solve many question SS700 fans have.

    Thanks again for your effort! Really appreciate that!

    Rgds,
  • Xenokel
    if u guys wanna svc yr reels, can try this link. feel free to have a look

    www.teamanglingaddict.blogspot.com
  • sibeisian
    hi bro nimo,

    thanks for the fantastic and very detail tutorial on modifications to the ss700.

    i'm a beginner with this reel, just got it second hand late last year and i've had alot of fun and many fishes landed with it...

    however, after a recent freshwater luring trip, i noticed that the rotor assembly (i believe this is part no. 20 on the schematics) has become very loose, like wobbling from side to side.

    im not sure if this is the way its originally meant to be cos i have nv really noticed it..and i checked my other spinning reel the rotor assembly is tight..

    could you kindly advise me what is wrong with my ss700? could it be something i did during my luring trip that caused this problem? e.g. cranking too hard etc..

    thanks!
  • heng7272
    Pls help , Is the daiwa ss1300 and ss700 using the same thinkness ball bearing?
  • Nimo
    You may be surprised that the SS700 uses a bigger bearing in supporting the main gear. :)
  • firezab
    thank you for such a detail diy. i just bought a ss700 and notice that there is a slight rotor wobble when spinning, quite irritating but the reel works well. you mention in your diy that to add counter weight to balance the rotor, may i know do you stick on the rotor body it self or somewhere near the bail arm ? where are the usual locations to start trial and error.

    thanks

    ''It is easy to balance the rotor. Just add a very small weight to counter the line guide. You have to experiment yourself. ''
  • Nimo
    Disassemble the whole assembly as described and put together again carefully. The wobble may partly due to poor assembly.
  • firezab
    Nimo" said:
    Disassemble the whole assembly as described and put together again carefully. The wobble may partly due to poor assembly.
    thanks for the advise, i did the cleaning and re-assembly. not much improvement. i notice when i spin the reel, the spool going up and down is like not straight, a little snakey like movement and suspect that is the cause but i cannot isolate which parts are creating this snake like movement.A friend told me ss700 are all like that, signature wobble.
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